plce than the lgbt community ? I get that they could create their own community, but there is strentgh in unity, i don’t really understand why people don’t want them? 2/2
because cishet aro/ace people coming into the lgbt community does harm our community, for two reasons. 1) cishet aces that consider themselves lgbt take resources specifically earmarked for lgbt people, which is to say, specifically earmarked for people suffering from systematic oppression as a method of fighting back against that systematic oppression, which cishet aces don’t experience, and 2) cishet aces often have issues that are separate of lgbt issues or even in contradiction of lgbt issues, and lumping these issues in with ours creates confusion, weakens our position, and asks us to devote our advocacy to things that do not affect us and, in some cases, can even harm us (see specifically, historical desexualization of lgbt people and the “demonization” of lgbt sex).
this isn’t a matter of having people to hang out with. it isn’t a matter of being cool enough to sit at our table. the lgbt community is engaged in a radical statement against institutionalized discrimination and systematic oppression, and our advocacy and our resources are committed to the specific and explicit fight against transphobia and homophobia.
which cishet people, regardless of their relationship to sex and romance in their personal relationships, do not experience.
Sorry, (not sorry) to be this frank, but this is
bullshit. Like saying cishet aces “often have issues that are separate of lgbt
issues or even in contradiction of lgbt issues” – What issues? What is LGBT? – For
me it is people that are discriminated because of their sexual orientation/identity.
That is the thing we all have in common. And discrimination comes in all kind
of forms and differ from society to society. And the issue is to fight this
discrimination in general. And a lot of issues are the same for aces as well as
for other LGBT people – corrective rape is an issue for lesbians and as well as
for asexual, being pathologized as a mentally ill is a problem for all LGBT
folk. So what are the issues aces face that are so different from LGBT issues
that you have in mind? Oh yes, cishet aces can marry even in countries in which
lesbians cannot and the can pass as “normal” (as can many bisexuals or gay sex-repulsed, aromantic men). How does it come that within the LGBT community some have this
idea of an Olympics of oppression that you need to win in order to “qualify”. Is a cishet ace part of the movement once they have survived corrective rape or when they have faced medical treatment for Hypoactive sexual desire disorder?
And how does the
inclusion of aces weaken the position of LGBT positions? Is it not a general
LGBT position to fight against discrimination based on sexual orientation and
sexual identity? Look at the fights of the past – it helped the gay movement to
include lesbians and trans people because in the end when fighting marginalization
it is better to stand together than to fight against each other. Your position
is not only quite selfish but also shows a lack of understanding how advocacy
works. You think that “lumping these issues in with ours creates confusion,
weakens our position” – no, it is the opposite. Take a look at every social
movement of the past hundred years and you will learn that bundling issues and
bringing people together that face similar problems is what made social movements
successful, look at the labour movement or the women movements or even
environmental movements – numbers count, bringing people together counts,
fighting the general basis of a problem counts.
The idea
that “cishet aces that consider themselves lgbt take resources specifically
earmarked for lgbt people” is just laughable. Do they? How? And what resources? What I see is that
aces, even cishet aces, add resources to the fight against discrimination based
on sexual orientation as they speak out, as they show the world that there are
a number of sexual and romantic orientations, that heteronormativity and
amatonormativity is not the norm and that that diversity is natural and something normal and good. In your mind fighting against transphobia and homophobia
is the main reason for the LGBT movement and you fail to see that there is a
common idea behind that and that is the idea that only heterosexuality and with
it amatonormativity is the norm to which everyone has to conform to and
that idea is the problem – it isn’t whether chishet aces face the same
discrimination as gay man or whether bisexuals face the same problems as trans
people, it is the fact that they face problems because of their sexual
identity, their sexual orientation. And to fight that heterosexual norm we
should stand up together and not apart.
And by the way, how the hell will the inclusion
of asexuals in the LGBT movement give anyone an argument to desexualize LGBT people?
I honestly have never come across that argument and the historical
desexualization cannot be linked to asexuality in any way. Have you any example where that happened?
There is a wonderful post I cannot find at the moment (but I will add it as soon as I find it. It is by an older gay man who remembered the evolvement of the movement and who remembers that at the beginning the gay movement wanted to exclude lesbians and trans people fearing that it will not help their aims and late the larger movement wanted to exclude the bisexuals (by the way with nearly the same arguments you just used) and that bit by bit that changed as well because numbers count, fighting the same enemy counts and seeing that there are more similarities than differences. In the end he urges young people in the movement to not forget this history and not to fight each other but to fight against the real problem.
Thank you @melmey-fanfics 💜
It matters because they’re people and they’re relevant.
Thank you @melmey-fanfics. My sexuality doesn’t fit the het norm, I am not taking any of your “resources,” (not even sure what I’m supposed to be taking, tbh), and I recognize my privilege and use it to work toward recognition and acceptance of ALL under the LGBT+ umbrella. Enjoy your gatekeeping, OP.
Every time I see the term ‘cishet aces’ a I level up like fifty points in rage. An Asexual person is not ‘het’ because they are fucking asexual not heterosexual.
I am sick of this fucking argument. People who think this way are disgusting trash.
You know what? I don’t want to be in your ‘community’ I don’t want to be associated with gatekeeping people who want to stand on their soap boxes and shake their fists because ‘We’re more oppressed than you so you’re not allowed to sit at our table!’ It smacks of the nasty terf spread.
Just a few similarities: Pressure to engage in heterosexual relationships when they don’ t want them. Pressure to conform to societal ideals of happiness (which includes marriage and kids). Not to mention a similar lack of relevant information on sex and sexual identity. Did you know that huge numbers of asexual people just think they are broken? Just like other lgbtq people from conservative areas/families/religions think they are broken or wrong! Only now those other lgbtq kids might manage to see representation somehow in the media. The ace kids? They are still either being actively told they are broken/wrong or being patted on the head and told they’ll grow out of it or they just haven’t met The One yet. You know, exactly how tons of gay or bisexual people are told they are just “going through a phase” and they’ll grow out of it. We can and should support ace/aro folk and if they want to be part of the lgbtqia community they should be here. Gatekeeping sucks.
The disquiet over the LGBT Census erasure, the injustice of it, is that in action, meaning and consequence, it very literally makes LGBT people invisible again: this time on a stark white form that should include us. The message of still not being counted on a Census form sends a wider and more profound message around erasure at a time when LGBT rights themselves are under attack. LGBT people see newly minted, anti-LGBT legislators taking their positions in government, and are frightened with good reason. And now, on a basic population form, the one box just for them got blanked out. That means not only won’t LGBT people be counted, but all that could be gleaned about LGBT people, and who they are and what might best be done in terms of funding and assisting those who may need it most, will not be counted. That means less understanding at a time when more is urgently needed.
This is important but my mother had another disquieting thought. The Census uses addresses. She was genuinely happy that it was not being included, because she was worried that this administration might more easily track us or round us up. I want the information and I want us to stop being invisible but I literally got chills when she said that.
Beltainefaerie's Flights of Fancy 